Forum:Admins to be deopped?
I'm looking through the admin list to see if we need to deop anybody due to inactivity. My concern is that people might ask dead admins for help that they'll never get. My candidates are listed below (and I think in general if a deopped admin returns in earnest, they should probably get their +S back...so none of this is necessarily permanent). I've listed their most recent edits, number of edits since the end of May (almost four months ago), and number of adminly tasks (deletions, etc.) done since May. —rc (t) 04:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't know the best way to go about doing this...whether we should vote or what-not...so let's just see what people think of the matter for now. —rc (t) 04:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE After reading the comments I propose the following:
- TheTris, Bonalaw and Darkdan deopped altogether due to extremely long peroids of dormancy.
- BobBobBob, IMBJR, KP and Volte moved to "Dead Sysop" category in Special:Listadmins, barring their return, as a precaution against users asking them for help. They retain their admin powers for the time being. I don't know how to create a new group, so I guess I'd ask Angela or another Wikia person about it.
- Rcmurphy snazzed up with cement footwear and tossed in the ocean.
Discuss here, please, so people don't have to scroll down to the bottom past all the silliness. —rc (t) 23:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Concur -- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 23:49, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- What about CRUSHERBOT (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )? And I'll add the LOL just to cover my ass.-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 00:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Aye. Except for rc, I'll take him. I'll put him in a matchbox and keep him in my pocket. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 00:19, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yah yah. I was gonna ask cowation about his cowation article once, ya know, until I scrolled down and saw that he was a dead cow.--Witt, of UNion Entertain me* 00:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- For sysop-maintenance, not so for all the effort for ridding of RC. ⇔ Sir Mon€¥$ignSTFU F@H|MDA|+S 13:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Fo' yah, do that --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 20:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yep. -- Sir C Holla | CUN 20:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Against all proposals but #3. — Major Sir Hinoa (Plead) (KUN) (20:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC))
BobBobBob (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 11 September 2006
- ~20 edits since May 2006
- 6 log entries since May (all deletions)
Bonalaw (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 20 April 2006
- 0 edits since May 2006
- 0 log entries since May
Darkdan (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 12 May 2006
- 0 edits since May 2006
- 0 log entries since May
IMBJR (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 12 September 2006
- 7 edits since May 2006
- 1 log entry since May (but it's just an image upload)
KP (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 24 September 2006 (yes, but see below)
- ~35 edits since May 2006
- 0 log entries since May
TheTris (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 10 February 2006
- 0 edits since May 2006
- 0 log entries since May
Volte (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Most recent edit: 19 August 2006
- ~20 edits since May 2006
- ~20 log entries since May
rcmurphy (Talk • Contribs (del) • Editcount • Block (rem-lst-all) • Logs • Groups )
- Kind of a wanker
- Hear Hear
Discussion
- AGAINST ALL except RC. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (04:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC))
- I say de-op them all. If they really want the +s back, let 'em have it when they show up again. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 05:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- I say de-op Spang so we can have our Splaka back. -- Sir Codeine K·H·P·B·M·N·C·U·Bu. · (Harangue) 09:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- For, But only if we admin Codeine's Mum. --Splaka 07:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- For, but only if Splarka is perma-banned in the process. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 12:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- For deop and ban of Spang to get Splarka back. 01:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- I say de-op all then, just for the fun of it, have rc perma-banned. ~ 14:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- You may de-op me if you wish, as my input has been next to nought of late. The alternative is to ensure that ppl requiring admin help are given clear indication of who they can yell to.--IMBJR 15:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- DE-OP ALL except RC. -- Sir C Holla | CUN 00:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- De-op all, and don't promote anymore user for administrator, unless someone does die. 13:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Deop It's high time failed admins get ceremonially huffed.-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 16:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Do not deop unless they're missing for extremely long times. Some of the above apply. We still may need more admins, but only if they are inclusionists. 01:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Deop all the ones I haven't heard of. --officer designate Lugiatm MUN NS CM ZM WH
Rcmurphy for admin
- Against —rc (t) 04:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Against Damn Wanker. --PantsMacKenzie 05:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Conditional for: as long as he becomes an evil admin. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 05:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- For He is good at it. Whether he wants to admit it or not. 13:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Rcmurphy to be deopped - SU182 to take over his position
- N+F since rc is a wanker (apparently) and life will be so much more interesting with SU at the helm. Oh, and does he need to be unbanned to assume his position? -- Brigadier Sir Mordillo GUN UotY WotM FP UotM AotM MI3 AnotM VFH +S 06:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Dead Sysop
- Can we not have another category of usertype called Dead_Sysop, so that they may be entombed in a suitable memorial? There they can remain until the time of the Unapocalypse when they will rise to join their comrades in arms in defending Uncyclopedia. -- Sir Mhaille (talk to me)
- That already exists, see User:Uvula Donor for an example. --IMBJR 16:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ulva Donor is acctually no longer an admin. "15:52, 12 April 2006 Dawg changed group membership for User:Uvula Donor from sysop to (none)" --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- I meant in the Admin List, adding "Dead Sysop" as an additional group along with Bot, Sysops, Bureau, CheckUser and Staff. Then we just move the dead ones over to the new group, and move them back if they rise from the dead. -- Sir Mhaille (talk to me)
- I would suggest keeping the dead sysops group with the same permissions as the sysop group (assuming of course that the groups are a collection of permissions and a function like delete an article checks for the "Delete Article" permission rather than wether the user is in the sysop group, if you know what I mean)--The Right Honourable Maj Sir Elvis UmP KUN FIC MDA VFH Bur. CM and bars UGM F@H (Petition) 15:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Good idea. For. ~ 16:15, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- For, I like this idea a LOT more than de-oping folks.--<<>> 16:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- For, what brad said --Roger The Bum Full sig! CLICK HERE!!!!!!!! 19:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed. Fits in well with the ethic of Uncyc. How I perceive it anyway. Begging for a beautiful page and image of their own, like Uvula's. 21:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- For. As long as we can bring them back. I hear Zombiebaron is good with those things.--Wit (tawk) 00:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- For, UnDead Admins. Sounds Great! 00:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- For Although, I've been pulling for making an undead an admin since my first day here, but I guess this is less of an ego thing eh? --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment While I don't quite understand the aversion to deopping people who do little/no op work, especially when it's easily reversible, putting them in a separate Dead Admins category is all right. I just don't want people asking them for help when there's no help to be given. —rc (t) 03:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Because we all intend to do little or no op work sometime in the future RC... except maybe you, I guess...--<<>> 13:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Doing little op work is the status quo for me. The trick is just to do it consistently so nobody notices how little you actually do. —rc (t) 21:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe we could de-op them, and then dead-op them? Deadop could be just like op, exept they wouldn't be on the list, and thus no one would ask them questions? --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 21:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Doing little op work is the status quo for me. The trick is just to do it consistently so nobody notices how little you actually do. —rc (t) 21:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- For. Because I'm lazy and a complete drone of Ghelae. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 06:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Brains. Braaaaaains... Rad 13:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Pathetic wannabees attempting to bask in the mighty Admins' reflected glory
Nevertheless, they would love to be opped and become personal admin aprentices
Through a two month internship, under guidance of the Admins
*Severian is willing to take shitty jobs.-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 03:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Rabbi Mordillo will turn all articles kosher and to pro zionists propaganda. -- Brigadier Sir Mordillo GUN UotY WotM FP UotM AotM MI3 AnotM VFH +S 06:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Sutoth Indar Will try his best to serve after the 28th September, because that's when he gets the intarweb at home, as long as I get a crash course in what I need to look after. The Freed Mind Sutoth Indar the Black Mage [MUN] [YvJP] 12:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ghelæ will
delete pages at randombe a good admin and block usersat randomwhich are causing trouble. ~ 16:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC) - Orion Blastar Just wants another promotion. Then he can keep writting what he considers funny articles. Leave the admin stuff to the others. --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 17:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Spang - I want to be opped again. • Spang • ☃ • talk • 22:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- WittI'll be able to delete with ease, and not have to worry about screwing up QVFD, well, maybe not.--Wit (tawk) 03:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- Crazyswordsman wants to be able to handle all the rediculous cruft he removes a lot easier. He also wants to replace it all with yummy pie. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 04:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- Does that mean we can choose the admin we want to be apprenticed to, or will they choose us? The Freed Mind Sutoth the Black Mage [FACEHOLE HERE] [MUN] [YvJP]I am not a bikini. 13:54, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- King In Yellow wants to get rid of his "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" complex resulting from being nominated for sysop (at least) three times. Oh, and to kill shit what don't deserve to exist, yo. --The King In Yellow (Talk to the Dalek.) 19:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- You and Zombiebaron both. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (19:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
- Don't you mention my name on this list of suck up little shits who want to be admin so bad that if you admins added "Must distrubute porn of yourself all over Uncyclopedia" to the list of things to need to be an admin, they would all jump at the idea, and comply immidiatly. Hmmm...a wee bit harsh, you ask? Well yes, but it did get my point across about this list and all lists like it (there was an "admin me" user box awhile ago *gag*). --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 22:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- No, Harsh enough, but I thought they got rid of that requirement last month? (We have enough "porn of yourelf" on Uncyc than we need." Besides, isn't this a joke header? Hence Spang there.--Witt, of UNion Entertain me* 01:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- No. If you look in the history, when this section of the page was made (by Sev) it was titled "Users Wishing to be Opped in a Wild Frenzy Style First Come First Opped Fashion". Seems like the kind of stuff that this kind of user would sign eh? Well, I'm not that kind of user! --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Read and understand, ZobmieBaron. And there goes my support for you next time you get called up. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (02:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
- Hmmmm...so, let me guess, you spelt my name wrong on porpose cause you know it pisses me off, but thats all right cause its a joke? Oh yah, and who says I ever wanted you're support...and by the way, you're neither my friend anymore nor are you invited to my 3rd birthday party, Hinoa. :P --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Read and understand, ZobmieBaron. And there goes my support for you next time you get called up. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (02:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
- No. If you look in the history, when this section of the page was made (by Sev) it was titled "Users Wishing to be Opped in a Wild Frenzy Style First Come First Opped Fashion". Seems like the kind of stuff that this kind of user would sign eh? Well, I'm not that kind of user! --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- No, Harsh enough, but I thought they got rid of that requirement last month? (We have enough "porn of yourelf" on Uncyc than we need." Besides, isn't this a joke header? Hence Spang there.--Witt, of UNion Entertain me* 01:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Don't you mention my name on this list of suck up little shits who want to be admin so bad that if you admins added "Must distrubute porn of yourself all over Uncyclopedia" to the list of things to need to be an admin, they would all jump at the idea, and comply immidiatly. Hmmm...a wee bit harsh, you ask? Well yes, but it did get my point across about this list and all lists like it (there was an "admin me" user box awhile ago *gag*). --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 22:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- You and Zombiebaron both. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (19:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
- I'd sure as hell not distribute anything immediately. I suck no ones balls! ZombieBaron is the harshest mother fucking Canadian I've ever come in contact with. He'll always be harsh, and his harsh, abrasive 60grit sandpaper mentality will drive most people to the grave, only to end up serving him in Death. I hereby remove my name from the dumb list I created...I've only got 6 months time here...c'mon lets me realistic. Wikimegalomania is not my bag.-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 01:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- RAWR! IT IS SPELT "Zombiebaron" NOT "ZombieBaron"!!!! ZombieBaron is my sockpuppet... --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:10, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- So this wasn't a joke header? It seemed like it when you were complaining on IRC.--Witt, of UNion Entertain me* 02:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- It was a JOKE HEADER!!!!!!!! I was the one who made it.....The joke, I hoped would get put across was, "The deopping question has been going around for a while, and I thought it was funny that if so many were getting deopped, you would need to fill the void in super quick, hence the Frenzy bullshit title I made." Codeine changed it, then I reverted him, got banned, and added two more subtitles, because I know it's gay. I don't have the experience to be an admin...Zombiebaron does, and he prally should be in the near future, like sooner than soon, but to see one of us "little shits" get opped before him would be awful and I would actually turn it down. What do you mean, by "this kind of user?" am I an asshole?Do I squint periodically or twitch?-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 02:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Well...Wow...That's a nice thing to say about a fellow, thanks. Oh, and I mean that users who are new to Uncyclopedia look at the admins and say "Wow, I wish I could do that". It is my belife that only once you can say "I don't give a damn about being a sysop" are you really ready to be a sysop. In the past we have seen what happens when newer users become ops, and then become bitter, and stop writing funny articles. So, basicly by "kind of user" I ment knew/inexperienced/not knowlegable about what admins acctually do. This is in no way an invitation for votes for anybody for anything. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:26, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- At any rate, I'm tempted to give you a timeout, ZB. But I won't. I'll leave that up to Jesus. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (02:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
- Give me one sound reason why I should be banned, and I will accept it. However I can't find a reason by myself ;) --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- "Divine intervention?" No, wait, that's GOD!'s shtick. Anyway, I said I'ld leave it to Jesus. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (02:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
- Yes, but you also said you were tempted to ban me, which leads me to belive that you have some kind of reason to ban me which you are not willing to share. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Oh noes! You are about to get Banned from the Internet! Head for the hills! They don't need a reason, because these new admins are part of the New World Order and clearly you stand in their way. Why? Because the Burgerbuilders said so, that's why! --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 23:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Bah, I don't belive you one bit Orion. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 20:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Ever heard of Alex Jones? He can sing you a song about it. Though it might give you a headache and you will need some HeadOn. Oh well, blame it all on Loki and Change Management, because that is the new trend now. That and New Age Psychology which will lead to the 911 sequel in 2007. --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 21:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Bah, I don't belive you one bit Orion. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 20:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Oh noes! You are about to get Banned from the Internet! Head for the hills! They don't need a reason, because these new admins are part of the New World Order and clearly you stand in their way. Why? Because the Burgerbuilders said so, that's why! --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 23:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, but you also said you were tempted to ban me, which leads me to belive that you have some kind of reason to ban me which you are not willing to share. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- "Divine intervention?" No, wait, that's GOD!'s shtick. Anyway, I said I'ld leave it to Jesus. —Correspondent Hin Arash, PRAA [TALK] [KUN] (02:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
- Give me one sound reason why I should be banned, and I will accept it. However I can't find a reason by myself ;) --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 02:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- It was a JOKE HEADER!!!!!!!! I was the one who made it.....The joke, I hoped would get put across was, "The deopping question has been going around for a while, and I thought it was funny that if so many were getting deopped, you would need to fill the void in super quick, hence the Frenzy bullshit title I made." Codeine changed it, then I reverted him, got banned, and added two more subtitles, because I know it's gay. I don't have the experience to be an admin...Zombiebaron does, and he prally should be in the near future, like sooner than soon, but to see one of us "little shits" get opped before him would be awful and I would actually turn it down. What do you mean, by "this kind of user?" am I an asshole?Do I squint periodically or twitch?-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 02:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Elimination of old sysops is evidence of the existance of the cabal!
don't ya think? --Nerd42Talk 16:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- ERROR 404: CABAL NOT FOUND. User:Hinoa4/sigM 16:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- I don't understand Nerd's logic. Please explain how public beheadings are reason to suspect a secret order? --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 22:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- When Bill Clinton was President of the USA, he would personally eat the bodies of the old SYSOPS and spit out the bones. Now they just behead them and burn them so there is no evidence of a CABAL. That is the way the New World Order works now, because the Burgerbuilders say so. --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 12:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
"The Cabal" in this case, would be defined as the new admins, who are conspiring to get rid of the old ones, in order to rule Uncyclopedia with an iron fist of BURNINATION. --Nerd42Talk 21:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- They'd do a lot better if they held a beer bash first to rally up support for the new admins. --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 22:37, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
- Or they could go around making hate mongering images of the "old admins". --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 21:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yeeaahhhhh, riiiiiigggghhhhhttt. that'll work. --2nd_Lt Orion Blastar (talk) 22:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Or they could go around making hate mongering images of the "old admins". --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 21:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- The cabal (TINC) is just an amusing invention of bored minds between episodes of Star Trek. But... some of us do get hungry from time to time and Sysop meat is 50% more nutritious than regular user meat. Studies have showed it. ~ T. (talk) 17:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- For some reason, I think the Cabal is a fictional device created by the people in power as a joke to pseudo-justify some of their actions. There really isn't a Cabal. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 14:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. That. Is. Correct. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Dude, that's not even a joke. The truth is that, on Wikipedia, there is a deletionist Cabal (if you participated in the Userbox debate on Wikipedia, then you know there is one). Since we're not Wikipedia, we have no Cabal by principle. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 00:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, instead all the high-ups wear red arm bands and pray to monsters. It is called "Cabala". Oh, and there is no Cabala. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 01:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Are you saying there's a Cabal here when there is indisputeable evidence to the contrary? Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 03:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- you guys have got to drop this cabal thread.-- Sir Severian (Sprich mit mir!) 03:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- No sir, I instead proclaimed that there was no Cabal, and that there was no off-shoot religous group of the Cabal. Oh, and as Sev said, this discussion is over :P. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 01:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- Nope, no Cabal here, just the Labac. --Lt. Orion Blastar (talk) 01:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- Are you saying there's a Cabal here when there is indisputeable evidence to the contrary? Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 03:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, instead all the high-ups wear red arm bands and pray to monsters. It is called "Cabala". Oh, and there is no Cabala. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 01:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Dude, that's not even a joke. The truth is that, on Wikipedia, there is a deletionist Cabal (if you participated in the Userbox debate on Wikipedia, then you know there is one). Since we're not Wikipedia, we have no Cabal by principle. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 00:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. That. Is. Correct. --Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- For some reason, I think the Cabal is a fictional device created by the people in power as a joke to pseudo-justify some of their actions. There really isn't a Cabal. Crazyswordsman...With SAVINGS!!!! (T/C) 14:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)